FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL NOW A FACT...

....over limited distances...
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/light_speed_000530.html
Excerpt from the web page:
"The situation is somewhat similar for faster-than-light experiments to
date, Chiao said. The beams contain a mathematical entity, called modes
-- the patterns by which the waves hang together -- that outpace light.
But there is no physical entity that does so."
What the heck is a mode (a la mode?) and if its just a mathematical
entity how can it travel faster than light if it has no physical
existence - how can the patterns of the light outpace the light itself
and how/why are the two separate things? Is this "modality" some weird
kind of perception changes existence quantum phenomenon?
And, most importantly, does this mean I'll get back my 35mm SLR photos
from the processor before I take them? ;-)

Thebokehking


Re: FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL NOW A FACT...

The point being that the "beam" rotating just causes photons to fly in a
direction. That gives a constant c for the photons. But the position
along the beam can move at any speed. It is massless, energyless,
informationless.
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Alan Browne


Re: FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL NOW A FACT...

Excellent. Exactly right. Thanks Matthew.
Cheers,
Alan
--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
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-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.


Alan Browne


Re: FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL NOW A FACT...

No. The photons (water packets) are going away from the source
(radially). The spinning of the beam really only happens at the source
(the sprinkler). The photons can only go outward. The "beam" appears
to be turning (and far enough out it can be much faster than the speed
of light), but the photons at the point where the beam is turning at 2c
(tangentially) are only going at 1c (radially).
To make it short: no mass (energy) is going faster than light. But
beyond a certain point the tangential velocity of the beam (which is a
position, not mass or energy) that is moving.
You just don't get it. Photons (things) can only go in that one
direction (radial). The tangential "velocity" is just the speed of a
point in space. That point is a position. Not a "thing". That
position along the beam is massless and energyless and therefore has no
speed limit....
A "beam of light" is not a single thing. It is a bunch of little things
that are all going in the same direction.
If I turn it at some number of degrees per second (angular rate) the
photons go away at c. But at some point along the beam, the angular
rate of the beam is c and 2x farther our it is 2x and so on. But NO
MASS OR ENERGY IS GOING FASTER THAN C. Just the imaginary position of
the beam.
In numbers:
I have a beam shooting out photons. The photons go out at c.
I turn the beam (like a lighthouse) at 30° per second.
At 352,251,076 meters away along the beam, the photons there are still
travelling away at c (2.99X10^8 m/s).
The beam at that point is sweeping at a right angle to the direction of
movement of the photons there.
That point on the beam is "changing positions" at c and at a right angle
to the photon that is still going outward at c.
Nothing of mass/energy is travelling at a right angle to the beam, only
that point along the beam is moving.
Now, if I go 2X as far along the beam (704,502,152 m). The photons
there are still travelling at c and still outward. The point along the
beam is now moving at 2X C at a right angle to the photon stream at that
point. But that point is just a position. It is neither energy nor
mass. It is just an idea.
No. The "mass" (photons) are going one way.
The "point along the beam" is travelling faster than c. But it is
massless, energyless and therefore can do as it wants. It's not a thing.
Cheers,
Alan
--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.


Alan Browne


Re: FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL NOW A FACT...

Why, are Kodak's prfits disappearing faster than light speed?


Thebokehking


Re: FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL NOW A FACT...

You know, what we should do is combine this thread with the one
containing Kodak's financial statements.


Pudentame


Re: FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL NOW A FACT...

Groucho Marx says...
"That's the most ridiculous thing I evah hoid"...
"I once shot an elephant in my photons, how he got into my photons I'll
never know..."
Curly says...
"E=mc nyuck nyuck" (angular velocity of light through a watermelon
only)
Einstein says...
"Imagination is more important than... Moe, Larry the cheese! Moe,
Larry the cheese! Nyip nyip nyip nyip nyip! Boink!!! Ouch!!!"
Moe says...
"Why I awdda...."


Thebokehking


Re: FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL NOW A FACT...

"Starlord" <starlord@sidewalkastronomy.info> wrote
A stream of replies that will make UC sound like Dale Carnegie.
Though one can hope Archemides Plutonium might contribute ...
oh, wait, I shouldn't have said that ...
--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.nolindan.com/da/index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com


Nicholas O. Lindan


Re: FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL NOW A FACT...

Why not post this line of posts to S.A.A. and see what you get back?
--
There are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the
universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the
Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be
brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the
heavens.
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html


Starlord


Re: FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL NOW A FACT...

186,000 MPS, it's just not a good idea, it's the LAW.
--
There are those who believe that life here, began out there, far across the
universe, with tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the
Egyptians, or the Toltechs, or the Mayans. Some believe that they may yet be
brothers of man, who even now fight to survive, somewhere beyond the
heavens.
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
The Church of Eternity
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/church/Eternity.html


Starlord


Re: FASTER THAN LIGHT TRAVEL NOW A FACT...

Thanks for the diagram/explanation, Mathew, but it still doesn't
explain how light can actually travel (not appear to travel from a
particular perspective) 300 times the speed of light!
To requote a previous quote and link...
" I was wondering if the article was speaking of this, or a
variation
Well, now I _finally_ understand how a packet of particles (say that 10
times faster than the speed of light ;-)) can _appear_ to travel faster
than light. Thanks for the link. But what I don't understand is...
"In a forthcoming article in the journal Nature, Dr. Lijun Wang and
colleagues of NEC at Princeton will detail an experiment in which they
accelerated light pulses to AT LEAST THREE HUNDRED TIMES c!
Furthermore, Italian scientists at the National Research Council say
they have pushed microwaves to 1.25c!"
Not everything is perspective tricks and/or semantics in light speed
measurement, so what I want to know is how/under what special
circumstances can light _in reality_ travel many humdred times faster
than the speed of c regardless of medium or perspective or mathematics,
_real_ _measurable_ _supraluminal_ _speed_.
Thanks for the explanations, keep 'em coming :-)


Thebokehking


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