M42 SM bodies

Curious to the experts in this group, was there ever an M42 camera body that
has mirror lock up?
Reason I ask:
I love to do artist shots when I can, then scan the film into Photoshop for further
post work, and MLU would help because there is a plethora of great lenses for
low prices out there. Any advice?
--
}<)))*> Giant_Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

AAvK


Re: M42 SM bodies

If you are interested in these Pentax Spotmatics and ES
("Electro-Spotmatic") cameras I'd recommend two books:
1: The Pentax Way by Herbert Kepplar. Get the eighth edition or later, as
that will cover all of the cameras up until the time that Pentax abandoned
the screwmount.
2: Honeywell Pentax Manual by Dr. Joseph Cooper. Bound in loose-leaf
format, covers not only the entire camera/lens/accessories lines but also
gives a good overview on photo techniques.
It seems strange to me that modern camera lines do not have entire books
dedicated to them and their features. But back in the 70s, the Spotmatic
and the ES were among the premier lines of 35mm equipment, and the fact that
so many of them are still in regular use today testifies to their ruggedness
and optical quality. I own 3 Spotmatics and one each of the ES and ES-II.
They have never failed me, and their lenses compare favorably with what is
out today (OK, so they don't autofocus, but I'd never want that feature.
But those metal lens barrels and that silky-smooth focusing are wonderful).


Jeremy


Re: M42 SM bodies

Now THAT is a WHOLE LOT of awesome and helpful information. It tells me
a lot that I needed to know, and I never expect anyone to respond that much, the
text has been saved in txt. Thank you very much!
--
}<)))*> Giant_Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/


AAvK


Re: M42 SM bodies

"jeremy" <jeremy@nospam.com> escribió en el mensaje
Yes. See at Cameraquest http://www.cameraquest.com/voigtFlexTM.htm
Tomas.


TLR


Re: M42 SM bodies

Are they still using that Copal shutter in the Bessaflex?


Jeremy


Re: M42 SM bodies

<eugen.mezei@gmx.de> escribió en el mensaje
In fact, this feature is common to all the manual cameras with the metal,
vertical running Copal Square shutter: cameras with M42mm mount from Cosina,
Ricoh, Chinon and Yashica TL Electro-X (I suspect that they are Yashicas
with horizontal cloth shutters) and the current Voigtlander Bessaflex TM.
Tomas.



Re: M42 SM bodies

AAvK schrieb:
Most M42-Cosinas have a "hidden" MLU. When you shot with the self
timer, as the shutter button is depressed, the mirror flips up and stay
locked but the shutter will be released in about 10 seconds after.
10 seconds is plenty to get rid of vibrations.
Most of the Cosinsas have this feature, for sure the Hi-Lite 405 has
it. (Btw. it has spot metering too. Anybody knows what is the measuring
angle of this spot?)
Take a look at http://www.butkus.org/chinon/#COSINA for some Cosina
manuals. If still interested I can look at the other M42-Cosinas I own
for this feature.
IMHO Cosinas are cheap this day and badly subestimated. All of them are
solidly built and most of them are real good performers.
Eugen


Eugen.mezei@gmx.de


Re: M42 SM bodies

Depends upon your definition of what constitutes working "properly."
The Takumars will mount on other M42 screwmount cameras. They will focus
correctly. But the SMC Takumars, with their proprietary full aperture
metering lugs, will not operate in that mode--you will have to stop them
down when metering, just as you would have had to do in any of the Pentax
models that preceded the Spotmatic F.
So, the more correct answer is that, yes, the lenses will work on other
cameras, but you will not be able to exploit the full aperture metering
functions on any but 3 camera models: the Pentax Spotmatic-F, The Pentax ES
and the Pentax ES-II.
I have mixed feelings about full aperture metering. The meter on the
Spotmatic-F comes on automatically whenever the lens cap is removed. I
shoot with lens shades a lot, and that necessitates my unscrewing the lens
shade and replacing the lens cap, just to shut off the meter between shots,
in order to conserve the battery. On my Spotmatic IIa (the previous
Spotmatic model), the meter is activated by a switch, and it automatically
shuts off after the shutter is fired (or it can be manually shut off using
the switch), which allows me to leave my lens uncapped with no risk of
depleting the battery. I much prefer this to the automatic activation of
the Spotmatic-F.
The price to be paid is that the Spotmatic IIa does not support full
aperture metering. Frankly I am quite comfortable with stop-down metering
on the Sp IIa.
The ES and ES-II camera support full aperture metering, and their meters
come on when the shutter button is pressed down halfway. The meter does not
activate automatically whenever the lens cap is removed, like on the
Spotmatic-F.
There is a compromise that exacts a price on these models as well: the ES
cameras were oriented primarily toward aperture priority automatic exposure.
There is no metered manual mode. If you switch the camera out of aperture
priority mode, the meter shuts off. Yes, you can operate the camera
manually, but you'll have to use a handheld meter. Also, the selection of
manual shutter speeds is limited--there are not as many speeds available as
on the Spotmatics. So, the ES models are a pain for shooters that want to
take the controls manually.
In fairness to Pentax, the ES cameras were produced at a time when exposure
automation was in its infancy, and there were bugs that needed to be worked
out.
My current favorites are the P3n and the P30t, that use the "A" series
(Ka-Mount). Those cameras have full metered manual mode--just like the
Spotmatics. They also have aperture-preferred exposure, just like the
ES/ES-II. They have advanced meter cells that respond faster and do not
have the memory effect of the CdS cells that were used on the M42 bodies.
They have reliable Seiko-Asahi electronic shutters. They have memory lock,
allowing exposures to be locked in while the photographer re-composes the
shot (you can meter on the subject's face, for example, and then shift the
camera angle without losing the exposure for the subject's face). They have
dedicated flash units that feature automatic flash exposure (non-TTL). The
"A" lenses were optically redesigned to be sharper than the previous Pentax
lenses, and they featured multicoating on all lens surfaces (some of the SMC
Takumars had uncoated lens faces, like the front element of the 35mm f/3.5).
They had a program auto exposure option, which was specifically set to
minimize the effect of movement. Pentax program mode always sought to use
the fastest shutter speed available in a given shot. Some photographers do
not like that, but I think it is great. If one wants to use slower shutter
speeds, or control depth-of-field, just switch to aperture priority mode.
So, for me, the P3n/P30t models offer all the features that I liked in the
Spotmatics and the ES models, with none of the compromises. No MLU, but I
haven't found that to be problematic. And the camera dies if the batteries
go dead, but it is hardly a burden to carry a backup set of batteries.
They're good for 10,000 exposures, and I'm not planning to spend an extended
time on some desert island.
The best thing about those models is that they afford full control to the
photographer. You want manual--you've got manual. You want auto
exposure--you've got 2 different auto-exposure modes. You want dedicated
flash--you've got it, and you can also operate the flash manually, but I
can't imagine why anyone would want to.
Oh, and you have full aperture metering, along with depth-of-field preview!
For me, that's everything I require.


Jeremy


Re: M42 SM bodies

OKAY that makes much sense, probably not worth the effort and money anyway
considering other bodies out there, to be had.
Yes but like I have mentioned in another thread and in this one, I have a recent
purchase of a Pentax K2, it's got MLU quite perfectly.
Do you mean I could not expect FAM from a Yashica TL Electro-X body with
Pentax made M42 lens mounted on it?
Then you are more of an expert than I the newbie. That Yashica would no doubt
need Yashica lenses to fully work properly.
Well... it stops vibration towards very sharp artistic and macro work. I believe it
is important and I love the feature. My past cameras that had it were a '97 Pentax 67
and a 70's Canon F1, then I had a later F1n that does not have it, because the mirror
mechanism in it is so *fine* it didn't need it. And I did some macro work with that
body that proved it.
But now, financial times are very different. And I have been given some Pentax K
M lenses by an uncle, along with a non working me-super and a 422D flash. So I
bought the K2. Now I see all these great prices on beautiful glass in the form of
M42, and so as well, curious about bodies with MLU. Okay? Very simple curiosity
on my part.
Thank you for your support, you have helped, much appreciated.
--
}<)))*> Giant_Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/


AAvK


Re: M42 SM bodies

Pentax hasn't worked on any of their legacy screwmount gear in a couple of
decades, citing parts unavailability. They won't even look at a screwmount
camera or lens, much repair it. It is doubtful that any of their current
technicians even have any training or experience in working on any of that
old stuff. The MLU modification was a specialty modification from Honeywell
service centers. I highly doubt that an independent repair shop would have
the parts or the knowledge to do the modification themselves. Remember that
this modification has been unavailable for over thirty years.
If you want MLU you can get it with a couple of the K-mount Pentax cameras
and lenses, and you will probably be able to spend less for a camera and
normal lens that is already so equipped, rather than paying for a
modification.
You mentioned that you wanted a camera that could exploit the full-aperture
metering lugs on the SMC Takumar lenses. Only Pentax cameras supported full
aperture metering, specifically the Spotmatic-F, The ES and the ES-II, none
of which could support MLU without a special modification (except for the
undocumented workaround that I described in a previous post).
Pentax (Asahi Optical, actually) did not license their full-aperture lens
system to any other manufacturer. You can mount those SMC Takumars on other
brands of cameras, but they are usable in stop-down mode only. Pentax may
have utilized what was often called a "Universal Mount," but they took pains
to differentiate themselves from other manufacturers, and they were not
about to lose revenue from consumers that wanted to mount their lenses on
other brands of cameras to take advantage of their special features. So you
should not plan on mating an SMC Takumar with another brand of camera body
and having both MLU and full-aperture metering.
If you are not heavily invested in SMC Takumars, you might want to consider
Nikon bodies and lenses. Nikon had a number of models with MLU and wide
open metering.
Is MLU that much of a factor that you cannot just live without it?


Jeremy


Re: M42 SM bodies

Sounds like whole lot to work there, and a lotsa research to get there too.
--
}<)))*> Giant_Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/


AAvK


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