Macro questions

I'm thinking of buying a macro lens but I have a few questions. Looking
at some sites, I noticed macro photography is much more than just
buying and using a macro lens. In a generic, explanantion-friendly way
- what is macro photography? I'm not looking for a scholarly these
paper on the subject.
Also, why can't I just use a telephoto lens? What does a macro lens do
better than a telephoto lens?
Lastly, being that I am mainly a landscape/nature photographer, what
kind of subjects are we talking about - small bugs and plants/flowers?
CK

Cisco Kid


Re: macro questions

Funny you should ask!
Here's a little illustration I just put together.
http://www.pbase.com/bret/image/64158136
This first pic was taken at 1:1.
Since the 20D has a 1.6x crop factor, some of the penny is cut off. On
a full frame sensor (or 35mm) you'd be able to see all the penny in the
frame.
I have reduced this pic to 20% of it's original size for web viewing.
http://www.pbase.com/bret/image/64158137
This is a crop from the first pic which has not been reduced in size.
In other words, this is what you'd see from the 20D at 1:1.
http://www.pbase.com/bret/image/64158138
Now we go down to 5:1, the limit of the 65mm MP-E lens.
This shows some of the detail this lens can capture.
Oh by the way, this image has been reduced in size by 25% for web
viewing.
The point is that a true macro lens, especially one as powerful as the
Canon 65mm MP-E, is closer to a microscope than it is to a normal lens.
It is very difficult to use at it's 5:1 setting. While it is very
difficult to attain the correct focus (focus is accomplished by moving
the lens closer or farther from the subject), getting enough light on
your subject becomes the real challenge.
Not for the squeamish (nor the impatient).


Annika1980


Re: macro questions

"Cisco Kid" <jimkernicky@gmail.com> wrote in
T'other way around. The real coin itself would be twice as big as the
slide/negative image. Or to approach from the other way, the image is 1:2
ratio compared to life, otherwise known as 1/2 lifesize.
Basically, 1:1 is lifesize, 1:2 is half lifesize, and 5:1 (the
expensive lenses can manage this - see http://tinyurl.com/e4foj) is five
times lifesize. Bret, got an example handy from the Krokendous MP-E 65mm?
- Al.
--
To reply, insert dash in address to match domain below
Online photo gallery at www.wading-in.net


Al Denelsbeck


Re: macro questions

the 100 mm macro is going for somewhere in the $350 range. I bought mine a
few years ago on eBay for $100. I still can't understand why no one else
bit that lens up.
My recollection is that B&H was offering the Carl Zeiss 100mm macro lens in
Contax mount for $850. Just threw that in for comparison.
Everything comes with a price tag and only you can decide whether you want
it badly enough to pay the price. If you are taking casual amateur shots,
you might want to pass on a macro lens. I had an opportunity to get one
cheap--and I'm extremely happy with it.


Jeremy


Re: macro questions

Jeremy and Al - thanks a lot!
how much for a quality 100mm macro - maybe I can afford one starter
lens - and not a pro L Series Canon macro lens either - if I had the
cash I'd have nothing but the best lenses as well as various
hasselblads
lost me there - you mean if a coin shot at 1:2 the coin is half as big
as on the neg/pos, but if the coin was shot 1:1 (assuming the coin in
question is not bigger than a 35mm frame or the coin is cropped) than
you could lay the coin on the neg/pos and totally cover the
photographed image - did I get that right?
Thought I would catch grief for that question - let me tuck my tail
between my legs and be on my whimpering way.
got it - that's good stuff - helps my imagination.


Cisco Kid


Re: macro questions

@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
I'll agree with Jeremy's reply, up to a point ;-)
And that point is, right where he says, "forget about reversing
rings, extension tubes, using normal lenses attached to bellows or using
those close-up screw-on adapters".
All of them have their place, and many may be used in combination
with one another. It all depends on what you're photographing and how
close you want to get. Yesterday I was propped on a table on a dock,
shooting with a 105mm macro lens on both a 2X teleconverter and a 36mm
extension tube. Why? Because that's what it took to get my subject as big
as I wanted. (I was also switching back and forth between a flat-panel
slave strobe and a macro attachment for a standard flash unit...)
(True) macros are typically the sharpest lens in any manufacturer's
lineup, optimized for detail work, and usually pretty fast (wide maximum
aperture, often f2.8). This allows you to see and focus on subjects in
less-than-optimum lighting conditions. Other options often have their own
foibles - light falloff for extension tubes and bellows, edge distortion
from closeup diopters (screw-on magnifiers), and so on.
So, your specific questions:
Macro photography is usually defined as achieving a magnification
of at least 1:2, but more often 1:1. This is the comparison of your
subject size to the size it appears on the film plane - change the colon
to a slash to make a fraction and you're closer to the mark: 1/2 lifesize
to 1/1, or full lifesize. Which means a coin, laid alongside the slide or
negative image of itself, will be the same size at 1:1. And of course,
the slide/negative image will be half the size of the real coin at 1:2.
Lots of argument about "true macro" photography, but you can
generally stick with the idea of "really close up photos" and be fine.
As Jeremy indicates, a telephoto lens usually won't focus close
enough to mimic a macro lens - you're often talking a magnification of
1:4, 1:6, along those lines. Extension tubes, which allow lenses to focus
closer than their design, can change this, but there's often a tradeoff.
First, they lose some of the light that the lens transmits - it simply
falls outside the film area or bounces off the tube walls. Second, not
all lenses can measure up to the additional magnification, and you find
out that they get noticeably softer when used with tubes. And finally,
your magnification depends on the focal length of the lens and the amount
of extension - the longer the lens, the more extension you need to
increase the magnification, and thus less light comes through. Not to
mention starting to make a really awkward thing hanging off the front of
your camera ;-)
What kind of subjects? Aw, c'mon, whatever you want to shoot! Bugs
and flowers are typical, and also done to death (not that that stops me,
but...). I've also done macro aquatic subjects with a fishtank, and
fossils. Reptiles, feather details, frost, seed pods, and tiny
footprints. Go wild. The details typically missed by the naked eye are
what most people want to reveal. But maybe you're not most people... ;-)
Hope this helps. It's not a simple field, and there's tons of
approaches and techniques. Poke around, and good luck!
- Al.
--
To reply, insert dash in address to match domain below
Online photo gallery at www.wading-in.net


Al Denelsbeck


Re: macro questions

...
A true macro lens allows you to get close-up to the subject. By contrast, a
normal lens can focus only down to about 18 inches. At that distance, very
small subjects do not fill the frame, and produce unsuitable photos.
True macro lenses typically have flat field coverage allowing you to
photograph documents or graphics with a minimum of pincushion or barrel
distortion.
True macro lenses typically have minimal light fall-off at the edges of the
frame, allowing you to capture entire documents without vignetting.
True macros have measurably less distortion than other workarounds. They
are relatively expensive because of their unique applications.
There is a lot of confusion because most manufacturers have zoom lenses with
"macro mode," and that is not true macro.
If you want to do it right, and if the extra cost is not prohibitive for
you, get a real macro lens and forget about reversing rings, extension
tubes, using normal lenses attached to bellows or using those close-up
screw-on adapters. Those solutions are justified when cost factors are
involved. Obviously if you take only a few macro shots annually, you may
find those options all right.
If you can deal with the cost, get the real thing. I have 2 macro lenses, a
50mm and a 100mm, and the 100mm is much more versatile, because the lens
does not have to be right up against the subject, leaving some room for
lighting. I find the 50mm is good for documents.


Jeremy


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